Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] This episode of Something Worth Saving Asheville Stories of Resilience is brought to you by. Explore Asheville. Asheville, North Carolina is the kind of place where you can spend the morning on a trail with views of the Blue Ridge Mountains and then be back in town for a mind blowing dinner that is an adventure all its own. The food, the art, the music, it's all got this creative energy that just pulls you in.
[00:00:22] And honestly, being there feels good. It's the kind of trip where you come back lighter and more inspired.
[00:00:29] If you're looking for a getaway that blends the outdoors with culture and flavor, you need to visit Asheville. Highland started with my father's unquenchable thirst to build, to connect, to see possibility.
[00:00:43] Our thirst for good feels sets us apart. Good times flow as freely as our beer. Grand milestones and intimate moments become unforgettable memories. And first visits become lifelong traditions.
[00:00:57] This is Highland Brewing's thirst for good. Good flavor, a good future, and of course, all the good feels.
[00:01:16] The hills rise up a cradle of keeps each face a map where the roots begin the firelight dances and whispers low Are the ones who stay knows you'll go.
[00:01:34] Welcome back to Something Worth Saving Asheville's stories of resilience.
[00:01:38] On this episode, we are going to share more about community and interconnectedness. When we began our project, we knew that smaller cities would provide a more intimate landscape where communities sprouted. But to really talk to people about it brought it all to life. Before we dig into how people create strong communities, we wanted to learn more about human connectivity mirrors that which is forged in nature. And who better to start that conversation with than a friend we introduced you to in episode one? Alan Muskett.
[00:02:11] Grandma's voice in the mountain air.
[00:02:16] Her laugh.
[00:02:19] If you watch a documentary on Netflix called Fantastic Fungi, it explains that all the forces in community and it's unknown, but under the ground. Yeah, right. And the fungus is sort of the connecting web for that. The problem with cutting down the largest trees is that those are literally the elders, so to speak, in the woods. And, you know, some people dispute that characterization, but the fact is that as I understand it, there are more connections between the older trees and the younger ones than between two young trees.
[00:02:55] And that maybe just stands to reason because it's oldest, but it's clear that chemicals are passing along these channels and so these are hubs. And so it's believed that these chemicals aren't just sharing of nutrients, but actually information.
[00:03:12] Yeah, yeah. And so that would be the justification for that argument and why?
[00:03:18] Counterintuitively, like when you have a selective cut and it's supposed to be better for the woods and they take only the large trees.
[00:03:26] The fact is that's like going into a community and taking out all the leaders.
[00:03:30] Right, right. And then you, you have chaos, inexperienced people who don't know better. And it's like the communication system that you're talking about. If you were to think of that as a metaphor for human beings, I mean, it's pretty clear. And in fact, the largest creature on earth is a fungus. And every one of the hundred thousand mushrooms coming up within this three and a half square miles is one individual, based on, you know, DNA testing that all connected.
[00:04:00] So as a metaphor, I think that we tend to see ourselves as separate individuals because we only look to what we can see. We see this body and we don't see a physical connection between us.
[00:04:14] And yet, you know, when you talk about like someone's personality and who they are close to someone else, like it's not in there, it's clearly not in their body.
[00:04:23] Right. It's like not something you can point to.
[00:04:26] And I think by the same token, like we are, I mean, any sociologist or anthropologist will tell you, I mean, we're connected in cultural ways. And that's what I mean by community. If we're not social, we're not human.
[00:04:40] Like right now, today, I don't think we are not human if we don't feel community and see ourselves that way. Because that is essentially not our intelligence or our ability to use tools like.
[00:04:53] In fact, people argue that our intelligence exists to be social.
[00:05:00] There's been a lot of discussion lately about emotional intelligence, which relies on self awareness, self regulation and social awareness, and fosters the type of pro social environment. Alan discussed recognizing that this form of intelligence is a necessary tool to create connections amongst human beings. Musician River Gagariand talked to us about how we engage through the vibration of sound. One of the ways he facilitates this is through communal sound bathing sessions.
[00:05:38] If there's 20 people in this space and everybody's vibrating on a similar wavelength, first of all, there's always some kind of group consciousness that happens, right? A collective consciousness that happens when a bunch of people are in the room. And most of the time, if it's just a gathering or a meeting or a concert or whatever reason people get together, everybody has a different intention. Now when you have 20 people that focus their intention on something, then it's so powerful. So there's all this kind of like, for lack of a better Word magic that happens. And the magic in the sense of, like, there's certain things that cannot be described with words. There's a place where words can obscure more than they clarify, you know, and we all know where that place is. So when we do that collectively, the power of that, that ripples out of this just place, and it connects with all the other people that are either just meditating or prayer or places in a house of worship or wherever it might be.
[00:06:34] Those connect. Those. All those vibrations connect all throughout, you know, my street here and then into the neighborhood and then in the community, the town, and exponentially around the world. I think those are the kind of things that are really changing the world. And that's where real community happens. Another person who is able to draw the direct line from the brain to sound and the reverberations of making sounds together is Laura Williams, director of the Asheville Beer Choir.
[00:07:11] Well, if you think about what your character carrying every day with you just walking around, there's fluctuating cortisol levels, you know, the stress hormone. There's. There's fluctuating serotonin level, you know, that you're just this kind of this little organism that could be different every day and.
[00:07:32] And finding balance with different things every day. And so, yeah, little dopamine hits or serotonin, you know, we find there's spikes in that just occurring naturally and that cortisol levels could be a little lower.
[00:07:51] There's something about that kind of human connection that starts to lower that. And when you sing at each other, you're singing different vibrations and frequencies. So I might be singing a 440.
[00:08:04] And if you're singing that same note at me, we are literally singing scientifically sharing that wavelength together, quite, quite literally. And even if someone is just. Maybe you're just at one note above that, there is a tension, there's a vibration there that you can physically feel. It's really kind of fun.
[00:08:25] So that when that resolves, it's so, so satisfying that we call that, you know, musical dissonance where it has that crunch and then kind of that consonants where it's a little bit more of the happy harmony kind of feel.
[00:08:40] So it's. It's really something you can actually feel. Which is neat because, yeah, you can't always tell, like, oh, my serotonin levels are. You know, you can't just naturally know where that's happening. Yeah. But, you know, you feel different. You literally feel it. Yeah. And. And so that's pretty neat. And that you're not you are not alone experiencing that music that really can make a difference. And not just singing for the fun of it, just singing for a lot of things. We're just doing more and more within the community now that we're so much more of the community and connected with the community, that. That seems to be something I don't even have to look too hard to become a part of. When new people like last week came into rehearsal, I was like, welcome. We're all friends here. So it's a little bit crazy, you know, like they, you know, when you walk into a tight knit group of friends, that's a little bit like beer choir on a bigger level now. So that's. That's so cool. I'm like, how did we get here? It's so neat. How long after the storm were you able to gather and what was that first gathering like? We met at Highland Brewery about a month later to check in on everybody and. And so, yeah, I want to say maybe 20 of us were there off the top of my head. And it's actually so. It was so wonderful.
[00:10:04] Every time a new member would come in the door, everyone would cheer, you know, just so excited to see so many of the stories we're hearing is just like, you know, something awful happens. People help their neighbors. They don't really ask. And we know that we're living in really polarizing times. People are isolated, where people weren't communicating and what it's like when you bring people together to make music.
[00:10:25] It's like you're not asking people questions, you know, you're just singing together. Right. And when you talk about both, like your weekly experience as well as like getting more involved in music as activism, just finding ways to literally use your voice well. And I would say especially during Helene, you did not feel the same polarizing effects. I mean, that was the last thing on your mind, which is unexpected for me because it's always on my mind. But.
[00:10:57] But as far as Helene, yeah, that was neighbor helping neighbor. No questions asked. That none of that seemed to matter, but in a way that you could never expect. That.
[00:11:09] Yeah, I never thought those. Anything could tear down walls like that or even make you not even worry about what walls, you know, why should something like that have to happen to bring us together? There are so many different ways to make music. And some of them are high art and some of them are human connection. And sometimes they're both in the best of worlds. They're both. Byron Ballard talked a lot about the need to reconsider our current Models of leadership, the sharing of resources, and the need to truly know the people around you.
[00:11:42] This is a song about connection, All kinds of connection.
[00:11:52] I tour extensively and talk always about community. Always, always, always. So talk to me a little bit about that piece of what you do. Yes. So part of what I talk about when I'm teaching is that everything we do has to focus back on community. If it doesn't, it has little or no value.
[00:12:13] And I mean the community right now where you are. Yeah. Not sort of your pie in the sky. Oh, in. In the future, I'll be able to move onto the land, and then we'll have an intentional community. No, I'm talking about the jackass who lives next door to you, the old woman who lives down the street, the brand new people who just moved here from Florida or California or wherever the hell they move from.
[00:12:37] Those people. I'm talking about your actual, literal neighbors and community, because that's where you have to start. Because I can have all the friends in the world, all over the country, but if my car won't start, they can't help me.
[00:12:51] But my guy next door, if I have a relationship with him, it will be helpful. And we are so fragmented culturally that it's easy to go, ah, well, I saw the political sign in their yard and said, they're not like me.
[00:13:08] Instead of actually having a conversation and figuring out, well, they are kind of like me, but their politics is different. The politics is different and the attitude is different because their personal history is different than my personal history.
[00:13:24] So I talk about community a lot. A lot, a lot. But here's what's happening with power. Power has to run in this direction. It goes from your heart to. To your hearth, from your hearth to your neighborhood, neighborhood to town, town to county, county to state, state to region, region to nation, and nation to world.
[00:13:47] If it's not flowing like that, it's not flowing well. We're living in a culture where we've lost our connection with each other, with the land we live on.
[00:13:55] And it sounds like so much of the work that you do is. Is that countercultural work really has to be a circle of people who all bring something. So there are all these beautiful articulated layers of what community looks like.
[00:14:15] And no one of them is more important than any other. And the symphony is, of course, a wonderful example because, yeah, you don't need that big bass drum more than a few times, but boy, when you need it.
[00:14:29] Jennifer Pickering of Leaf Global Arts also had a lot to say about how the arts connect us in large and small ways. I was fortunate enough to return to Asheville a third time in October and attend the Leaf Global Arts Fall Festival. And it was just an extraordinary experience all around.
[00:14:46] From the amazing array of music and dance options to the art making, lake activities, youth experiences, and so much more, it was a truly magical and uplifting weekend to get to see and experience firsthand. What I had been discussing with Jennifer, whose tagline is live life like a festival was just remarkable.
[00:15:08] The entire property was transformed into a third space. And the value of coming together to unite as a global community cannot possibly be described in words.
[00:15:31] Art is one of those big words, the littlest big word.
[00:15:35] And what I've witnessed over the years is when you have a place of space and an experience that allows you to feel free, to feel comfortable, and to stay step into with other people, regardless of what their beliefs, what they look like, what their abilities are, what their age is, what their color is, any of the pieces that oftentimes will divide people. When you can step into that, all of a sudden you're finding this connection point and you can both learn, you can break down some of your own isms, you can build new relationships and it just opens up whole new perspectives and worlds and allows you to not only gain different insights, but gain different appreciation and cultivate that cultural curiosity.
[00:16:35] So art just does it so easily. And again, art, such the broad term of whether it's music, dance, or, you know, murals, whatever you want to dive into, it is oftentimes free or easily accessible.
[00:16:52] And it is just a common, easy tool that is the fabric of keeping cultures alive. But it's also the fabric of connection and it's often underutilized. As we peeled back the layers of that fabric, we spoke with a lot of people about how where they live informs the type of community that gets created, including Dutch tulip farmer Marco Rosenbrook. Marco shared a glimpse into what life is like in Swannanoa, in an area that is smaller than six and a half square miles. Like Byron, he draws on the importance of truly knowing your neighbors.
[00:17:38] What do you love about living here? I've been living in a lot of places in my life. This area is very special to me because it's very diverse. We have got all kind of backgrounds, some higher income, lower income, and we've got all kind of political backgrounds, religious backgrounds. When you think like, you know, rural North Carolina, this feels pretty rural, but yet you're talking about diversity the way that you would see in a city, especially where I had experience in the city that there was not much connection possible because of background or whatever prejudgments over here, especially by working together while we're building here the playground or we're building the park or with everything that happened with a storm, everybody is connected. Yeah, everybody. We don't ask what you're voting for or whatever. It's not important. Also with the storm, we have to have a more clear knowledge or who are living where, where, because I, what I remember. This is the true difference between where I come from and here.
[00:18:53] We needed to knock on doors of elderly people because we want to know how they're doing or they need medical help and, or they need something. Where I, where I come from, you knock on the door, you go to your neighbor and there's communication. We talk with people. I said, I'm not going to do that. So why are you not going to do that?
[00:19:16] Anything can happen. It's the fear of connecting that's for me, essential.
[00:19:22] Well, when you want, when you take all the fear away by getting to know each other, you build community. But when you stay in that fear of connecting with your neighbor, you will keep a distance. All of our conversations, whether they revolved around connecting with nature or music or neighbors, led back to the initial relationships we have with our families of origin.
[00:19:47] For a lot of people in Asheville, family is essential. With many generations of family firmly rooted in the place.
[00:19:54] Former major leaguer Cameron Mabin, who grew up and was drafted out of high school in Asheville, and his wife Courtney, are two people who are carrying that story into the next generation.
[00:20:04] When we spoke with the Mabins, they were expecting their fourth child and they dug into why it felt essential for them to come home to raise their kids near their extended family singing in the kitchen, family running through the yard, going on vacation on the credit card. Now, I always tell people the thing that I love about Asheville and you got to see it in this short period of time is how kind people are.
[00:20:31] No matter where you go, it's after you, after you. And you'll stand in the doorway for two minutes trying to figure out who's going to go first. So that's what I, you know, I love about this town. And you know, I always say this town molded me into the person I am. And you know, I don't, I don't know what you want to add to that, but this is home. Yeah, I grew up more on the outskirts of Asheville in Hendersonville.
[00:20:51] But I mean, I loved growing up here. And one of the reasons I Still love it here is all of our family is here. So to grow up having just a tight knit community, plus our family just made it special to grow up, which makes it hard to, you know, ever want to leave here. Well, that's what you're saying. We started by talking about that like you've lived all over the place and yet here you are back in Asheville and you're having a hard time separating you from the Astral or the Astral from you. Absolutely. And when I say we lived all over the place, you know, my journey was different. 17 years professionally, 15 years in the big leagues playing for 10 different teams. So I actually, unlike a lot of people, I saw a lot of different cities and a lot of big league cities and minor league cities along the way. So we really, truly touched down in a lot of different places. That made us realize at the end of the day, Asheville was home. You know, when you, you have kids and we have a family now, three, one on the way and you know, family's important, cousins are important, grandparents are important, and that's how we were raised. So I think that value was, I guess someone instilled in us at an early age and it just made us appreciate where we were from and that's why we're still here, you know, about to sell our house just to move right down the road.
[00:22:01] Both have really large families, there's a lot of kids involved, there's a lot of cousins, aunts, those type of things. So I think for them to get that experience being in a tight knit community again with their family and their cousins, things that's been really fun for them.
[00:22:17] I don't know, for me to piggyback off what you said, I think the retracing of steps, right, like it's one thing to grow up in a place and you can take your kids there and go, hey, this is where this happened. You know, just a few weeks ago, we just took our daughter to where I grew up. You know, she had never been to the house that I grew up in and we used to own it. And you know, she said something funny, she was like, oh, dad grew up in the trenches. And I was like, but growing up, you know, it didn't feel like that. And it wasn't that this is the world that they live in now, but to be able to retrace those steps and you get to see how small the room was and how much room we actually had to work with and then, you know, it puts a smile on your face for them to Kind of get a taste of that, you know, it feels like to us, nostalgia, you know. So I think when Cameron even got to play, even at the high school or the little league fields, there's banners of when he won championships, when he was, you know, playing in his youth or his jersey retired and his high school. And I remember our daughter going out for the first time was like, I recognize that name. And I'm like, it's your name, it's your dad's name. And that was cool for her to see. Asheville is just a place, at least for my 38 years, where people seem, I think you can feel the gratitude in the air. People are smiling. You don't meet a lot of great, you don't meet a lot of grumpy people here. You don't run into a lot of people who are angry no matter what their circumstance is. So I think that right there as a kid, as a teenager, automatically makes the environment around you feel positive, right? Feel warm.
[00:23:50] So you treat people that way. You know, I say all the time, you know, I still feel weird when people come up to me and they treat me like I'm famous and I'm like, oh, I know Mike Trout and I play with and I, you know, I can text guys who I really think are superstars and celebrities.
[00:24:04] So I think I've just never looked at myself that way. And I think it is a testament to our families how we were raised. One, we were raised when people put you in check if you got a little bit too big for your britches, as they say around here.
[00:24:20] And I think, you know, those humble moments, you know, definitely not only molded us, but a lot of people that grew up in this area. And you guys have had a chance to witness the humility in people here, right? And you don't, you don't get it everywhere. Not saying this is the greatest place on earth, but I usually tell people this is, this is God's country, you know, because people are so kind and warm and forgiving and understanding and non judgmental There, there's a, you know, feeling, a feeling in this community of togetherness, right? But you really saw it happen when the hurricane, you know, hit us. You really saw people, without question, asking, pulling over, what can you do?
[00:25:04] Do you need diapers? Getting food to people who have babies, getting food to the elderly, getting generators, the elderly people. It was like, it was like you knew it. But to see it, I think made it even stronger. I think that's why the bounce back is going to happen as fast as it is happening because people here came together even more when they saw it, right. Like, you know, you didn't see color, you didn't see race, you didn't see gender, you didn't see anything but people in need and people wanting to help. And I just even like for our kids, right? Kids learning community service, right? That's community service, right? So yeah, those moments were, were special to actually see it right when you, you feel, you can feel it, it's different when you feel but when you actually see it going to action, it made it more special and already you can see tell it's going to be okay. And I think, you know, it comes from the amount of people that you see working together. And I think even now after the fact, people are more together than they may have been before.
[00:26:03] Friends and neighbors walking down the street wide eyed full of disbelief Ain't no moving on can't see the forest through all the trees City underwater in between mountain and storm but we still Asheville strong and we'll be all right in the long run.
[00:26:37] One of the things I found really amazing, not just in our interview with Cameron and Courtney, is how many people had a positive, almost upbeat feeling about Asheville coming back from the storm even stronger than before.
[00:26:49] It's like what Cameron said about the attitude and so many people there. It's a roll up your sleeves and get back to work kind of town. Working together, keeping it in the family and lending a helping hand comes naturally to Leah Wong Ashburn of Highland Brewing Co. Founded by her father Oscar Wong, also known as the godfather of Asheville Craft beer. We sat down with Leah to discuss how breweries are natural places for groups to gather. Highland Brewing Company is kind of the mothership from which the bustling Asheville beer scene emanated and touts itself as immigrant founded, woman led and the largest family owned brewery native to the Southeast. Talking to Leah on the massive property, complete with beach volleyball courts and a disc golf course, we felt welcomed in right away, which seems to be the core principle the brewery prides itself on. Can I get a connection?
[00:27:43] Can I get, can I get a connection?
[00:27:46] We are at Highland Brewing Company in Asheville, North Carolina.
[00:27:50] Asheville's first legal brewery since Prohibition. You kind of started the whole, I guess you could call it a craze here because you can't walk more than 10ft without a brewery.
[00:28:01] Tell me about the decision to do it. Well, what we have today was not the vision. So the decision to do it in 1994 was my father's He's a lifelong engineer.
[00:28:13] So that's how I growing up, he was just an engineer. I mean, not just, but I mean, he only had one career up until then, and when he sold his company, took a few years off, had always done volunteer work. That became more of his life, but it really wasn't enough. He is a social being. He's so smart. He's a people magnet. He has that true charisma that is so unusual in people.
[00:28:37] True charisma.
[00:28:39] So the idea became to have a permanent watering hole for himself and to invite other people.
[00:28:46] So the brewery idea is born. And there were people that were suspicious of what a brewery was going to be like in their community and not knowing dad too. So he was really intentional about meeting with people and gaining their trust and saying, we want to be a complement to this community. We're proud to be in Asheville. We want Asheville to be proud of us. You were just hopeful that the people would follow like the community. I mean, this obviously our project is all about building community.
[00:29:14] And you mentioned the sort of that your dad, you know, you joked, it was half joked, you know, that it was, you know, your dad needed a watering hole, but I think everyone could use a watering hole.
[00:29:25] This undersell's watering hole, you know, there's much more than that, but it's such a welcoming space. We want that to be clear to people here because you were the first, you've sort of intentionally are not overseen this explosion of beer. I mean, it's everywhere.
[00:29:46] I think this may be the sixth brewery's beer I've tasted. Well, you're only one fifth of the way done right. That's my point. So what has it been like to see that? And from what I understand, you sort of have embraced this mentoring role, for lack of a better word, dad more than I, because Dad is a starter. And so as breweries start, he has been an incredible resource for lots of folks. Lots of people give him credit for explaining how to get through a certain permitting process or just certain things to watch out for, whether it's their location, having enough capital to make sure that they're going to make it through all kinds of stuff. So he's got great relationships. Sadly, we learned just a few short months after our visit that Leah's father had passed away.
[00:30:35] Oscar was beloved in the community and as you heard, more than just the founder of a brewery. We are sure his loss has been profound. And while we didn't have the chance to meet him, we are sure Leah will carry on his Legacy through her dedication, warmth, and strong desire to continue offering a gathering space that feels like home, while also creating a family among brewers as well. My relationships also great. Different, you know, different generation.
[00:31:03] And that's also been a blessing. I have made friends along the way, and now, although I'm not a technical brewer, I have friends all over the place. And I'm really glad to be part of a coal industry. It sounds like more than an industry.
[00:31:17] You think people would be competitive, but we found, you know, this brewery's closed, so you should go to this one right here.
[00:31:25] It feels like it is a community just among beer makers.
[00:31:28] There is community among beer makers. I mean, sales is going to battle it out, right?
[00:31:34] They've got beer to sell and they're going to do their thing. But when it comes to helping each other in the industry, whether we need a part from another brewery or somebody needs to use our quality lab, that's stuff is happening all the time.
[00:31:49] So that's really nice. And we do. There's collaborations among breweries in town.
[00:31:55] While beer is the main vehicle that drives the business, Highland also brings people together with live music, an array of outdoor fun, and giving back to the community.
[00:32:05] I have always loved beer, admittedly, like, since I was table height, have always.
[00:32:11] And I have always, since I became like an adult, mixed beer with activity. So volleyball was usually my activity, but that social thing and then the beer after, sometimes during, is just. It's kind of my way of life. I mean, it's just been so much fun. I've had some of my best memories and so many friends involved in that kind of activity. So the active alcohol consumption is a healthier way to do it. And that's what we show people here. So that's our other communities run, club volleyball, disc golf, and then we also have communities around our philanthropy. We have different organizations with whom we develop a deep relationship, understand what they need, how we can help. We may brew a beer together, we may give some cash, but that's not what we're really about. We develop relationships that way in community and also hold events here. With so many nonprofits, I couldn't begin to count, but we have discounts, great discounts for nonprofits to hold events here, and we enjoy doing that.
[00:33:15] So it just. It comes to us in so many ways. And that part of our original vision was to be integral to this community.
[00:33:22] And we just keep finding ways to kind of dig deeper to go further. In episode two, we discussed how people find places like breweries, ballparks and theaters to Be pillars of community gathering. This all goes back to the concept of the third space and how essential it is to have gathering spaces with low barriers to entry. Whether in a theater, a beer hall, or a ballpark, people are drawn to being together and having shared experiences.
[00:33:52] We gather to seek refuge from the noise of the outside world, to feel a sense of belonging, to shift perspectives and to feel kinship with others.
[00:34:02] I have long felt that one of the best entrees into dialogue is through the theater. There is really nothing else quite like when an audience sees a live performance.
[00:34:12] Theater creates such a vibrant and immediate sense of seeing things through the eyes of others and often allows for the right tension to have important conversations well beyond the performance itself. Talking to John Russell of the Montford Park Players gave us a glimpse into how one company brings the relevance of Shakespeare's themes into the world today.
[00:34:39] So we get artists who come here for something else and gravitate toward theater. We have some of that there.
[00:34:50] Specifically. Theater people had one couple that traveled the country, they were based in California looking for a Shakespeare theater to associate themselves with. And they picked us. Wow. So how about that? You're known far and wide. We are, we are.
[00:35:06] So we had a researcher come in a few years ago from the University of War. He determined that we in fact were the oldest community based Shakespeare theater in North America. Asheville historically has been a community that attracts people here for a number of reasons. Of course, it all started with the belief that clean mountain air cured tuberculosis. And that was the big draw a hundred and so years ago.
[00:35:36] And the people that lived here, many people were like craft artists and did other things that attracted the attention of people from outside of the community. And so Asheville gradually became a tourist destination. Other people that live in the community just fell in love with what their fellow neighbors were doing.
[00:36:09] And as the communities grew and started to meld and exchange art forms, you see things like, oh, say the shindig of the green, where you have all sorts of musicians come together.
[00:36:28] And it's not just the ones that are booked for the show. It's people that bring their own instruments and just get up on stage and play. Play Shindig, Shindig, Shindig on the green. Music, dancing, the best you've ever seen. Saturday night in Asheville, that's the music scene. Come on down and have some fun with shindig on the green.
[00:36:55] We believe in theater, that the theater itself, because it tells of the struggles of people, Their triumphs, their tragedies, their joys, their sorrows throughout Generations and thousands of years helps to build community because people can say away, okay, I see myself in that person that we're talking about or we're being portrayed.
[00:37:23] So it's a way, a means of bringing people of all different types together.
[00:37:32] And this is why I can come away with a sense of enjoyment, with a sense of activism, sometimes with a sense of anger.
[00:37:42] Because sincere is not just comfort.
[00:37:46] As I think some noted journalists once said, we're here to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.
[00:37:55] So that's part of what good theater, good music is, is to challenge people's expectations.
[00:38:07] Live performance of any kind is an evolving style.
[00:38:13] It's never the same each time. It's always different. Yeah, that's how we do live theater. That's why we do live theater, live music.
[00:38:24] You sprung a memory of an interview we did. We spent a week in Portland, Maine, for the same project, and we talked to someone from a local theater, the guy from Mayo Street Arts, and he was talking about the similarities between, again, the baseball and theater connection, because I think a lot of people think, oh, theater, it's the same lines. It's a script, so how does it change? But he said, it's just like you go to a baseball game, you see something maybe you've never seen.
[00:38:54] Of course, we're sitting outside, so you probably could hear in the background wildlife and stuff like that. And you hear a lot of that at an outdoor theater.
[00:39:03] And of course, it can be somewhat of an anachronism to hear an airplane droning overhead when you're doing something like Shakespeare. So normally one actor will look and say, ooh, a dragon.
[00:39:19] One night we had a family of bears that just came out of the woods and just walked up beside the audience. And you just deal with stuff like that. Yes. And now they're part of the acting troupe. Oh, absolutely. You got one of them tonight, Hamlet.
[00:39:34] I noticed actually on your website, you know, you have free tickets. That's not something you see in too many places. Well, that is a. Yeah, that's a legacy that was handed down by our founders here believed that theater should be made available, affordable, and accessible to all.
[00:39:53] And as part of our mantra, we get to see folks come to enjoy theater that otherwise might not be able to afford to do so.
[00:40:03] It's an incredibly like, sort of low barrier to entry model.
[00:40:08] That is really an incredible thing to see, especially in today's economy, especially with our cultural values at this moment.
[00:40:18] I think it's something really for a lot of folks to aspire To.
[00:40:31] In all of our travels, and especially in Asheville, we saw the power of community building in minor league baseball firsthand. I see McCormick Field as both a refuge from the outside world and and a true community building space.
[00:40:44] The feeling of creating an extension of one's family came up over and over again when we talked to people there, whether they were fans or employees or volunteers.
[00:40:53] We met Mary Greene, whose son Daniel has worked for the tourists for over eight years as a guest services employee. We were incredibly moved by Mary's story about how Daniel, who has down syndrome, was warmly welcomed on board and later even awarded his own personalized baseball card. With his picture, name and stats that he hands out to visitors.
[00:41:15] I've started to experience that minor league baseball at its core is more about the building of real relationships than in the game itself.
[00:41:23] The ballpark creates a family atmosphere, one which regularly gives back to the community.
[00:41:29] I think a lot of times it's easy to focus on major league celebrity and salaries, but in minor league ball, it's really about the people who work there, come to games and play the game they love. In a town many begin to call home, even if temporarily. We're at McCormick Field, and this is Daniel's umpteenth year here. It's on his card. His stat is on the back.
[00:41:54] And we're here to. Daniel is guest services employee giving out thank you programs at the front gate. And he's quite a celebrity. And that is because the Asheville tourists have afforded him this opportunity.
[00:42:13] How did it all start?
[00:42:15] Well, that's interesting. He was working through voc rehab at Carrabba's and he was rolling silverware, but it got boring for him.
[00:42:25] And one of the young men that was mentor of his said, I think I know what he needs to do and the rest is history.
[00:42:35] He's been working.
[00:42:36] Let's look at the back of your card. I think it's 2017.
[00:42:40] His dad's the one that remembers all the figures and facts. It's quite all right.
[00:42:46] Yeah, 2017, he started here. Sarah, read the back of the card. Daniel made his debut with the tourists on April 13, 2017.
[00:42:55] He's greeted countless fans at McCormick Field with a warm smile and a program.
[00:42:59] It's estimated that he's handed out nearly 100,000 programs. Daniel loves dogs, his church family, and of course, the Asheville tourists. Daniel is eager to welcome each and every fan back for another exciting season of tourists baseball. Daniel turned 31 this past Sunday, and we celebrated here at the Asheville Tourist baseball.
[00:43:24] They did a Little special announcement for him. Our seat said, happy birthday, Daniel. And he wouldn't have wanted to be anywhere else. So we did the tourist game. We did church, the tourist game, and then went home and had homemade cheesecake. That sounds like a great. I would imagine he doesn't actually get to sit and watch the game all that often. Was that a special treat for him? It was a very special treat. He loves a seventh inning stream stretch.
[00:43:50] What has it meant to you and your family that the tourists have afforded him and all of you this opportunity? What does it mean for you to be here every day?
[00:44:09] It's a family feeling of social welcome.
[00:44:18] You watch him. He knows all the people coming in. They call him by name.
[00:44:23] It's as life should be. It's purpose, it's love, it's caring.
[00:44:29] It is absolutely incredible.
[00:44:36] Now I'm crying, too.
[00:44:39] I'm wondering before the time that you were spending at the Asheville Tourists to this extent, how you felt Asheville in general was in terms of community and welcoming and Daniel's story as well as just your personal experiences.
[00:44:59] My personal experiences. I've been here 40 years. My husband's a native western North Carolinian. We met in college.
[00:45:05] I have always found this town to be extremely welcoming.
[00:45:09] Things got a little tougher when.
[00:45:13] With down syndrome and those sorts of things, as far as acceptance goes. But then as we kind of. As things started to grow and we got introduced here, it's like everything changed. You guys in the community, I mean, we walk out and it's like, hey, Daniel, you know, they know him, they want to talk with him, they care about him. And then it's like, oh, you're. We just tell people to call us Daniel's mom and dad. Hey, Daniel's mom and dad. So it's. And it's so fulfilling for him. This place is like a big hug. I don't know how else to put it. It's easy to imagine yourself as being part of that broader family when talking to a longtime dedicated fan like Dorland Winkler.
[00:45:55] Dorland is the epitome of a true fan and really the kind of guy that minor league baseball was created for.
[00:46:01] He knows just about everything about the club's history and how much it means to the entire community. You've been a teacher and an educator for so long. What do you think about in terms of, like, the family friendliness of this stadium and how families come together here? It's perfect for that.
[00:46:18] It's a great place for families to bring kids. You can get them away from their Little tablets. Tablets or whatever and watch some baseball game, eat a lot of junk food and, and enjoy it as a family. You can. And it's a great place for families to come. They have firework nights. The kids can run the bases on Sunday afternoon and, and it's, it's, you know, a little kid to see a, to see a two year old making that trip around the bases. And our conversation inevitably led to Ron McKee, the longtime general manager credited with saving baseball in Asheville. Starting back in 1980.
[00:46:54] Ron was a local legend who brought the crowds back to McCormick Field by booting the drunkards and ruffians, ushering in family friendly programming and creating the kind of place where all of Asheville could feel a sense of welcome and belonging. You were talking about Ron McKee, who's the reason that this became a community place. And then you had his funeral here. How fitting was it that it was here? It was a reunion.
[00:47:18] It was happy tears and everybody had to relate a story about a such and such incident that happened here 20 years ago or whatever when Ron was there and of course his family was here and he had his convertible parked out here, sky blue convertible, had it parked out here in the field for him and that was good.
[00:47:44] A lot of tears shed that day, but a lot of emotions because he did, he was 25 years, he and his wife both, his wife was the businessman manager and they, they, they kept this park and the, the kids, all the kids worked on their way up from the, all the, up to the concession stand to being bat boys and lining off the field and they were. It, it was a real family, family enterprise. It's amazing to me how many families in Asheville work together, from Highland Brewing to McCormick Field. Seeking out the ballpark as a place of communal refuge is very much on brand for me. But to hear people talk about how much it means to them is extremely moving. Over and over again, we've heard themes of true unity in an era where it feels we are more divided than ever. It was, dare I say, hopeful to have these conversations, especially when hope feels like it's in short order.
[00:48:38] But I think that these conversations just further proved our overall thesis for this whole project.
[00:48:44] That people want to connect and that as humans, we are meant to live in relationship with one another. And while we continued to see this on a very deep level, we had to hold onto a bit of the realistic both and as well.
[00:48:58] So many of the very real challenges of living in true community are systemic in nature. A person who is existing and creating within the both and ness is Alexandria Ravenel of the Noir collective.
[00:49:12] She's someone who I think gets to the core of having hard conversations while still uplifting others and seeing opportunities both for the present and the future.
[00:49:25] Nowadays, everybody's struggling, can't even feed our families because of the strain of the government. And while the ones higher up are living lavish and smiling, we lip check to check killing each other with violence. These days and times are challenging. We have a great experience event called First Fridays. And that's the time where if you want to see people you haven't seen, because we are so spread out, this is the place that you would come. That's when you would come to see the folks that you're looking for. And we have an interesting time here. So it could be an art opening, it might be a drumming circle, we might have a dance party, we might have a fish fry in the backyard. I mean, there's all kinds of things that happens. I don't think it's easy in Asheville for a lot of folks to do it. One, because we are spread out and two, because the cost of living is so high and so people are working two, three jobs and it's really hard to maintain one sense of self, let alone trying to cultivate community.
[00:50:19] So I kind of feel like we do that for folks. So it's sort of like when you said it's the hub. It seems like what you've created here is a combination of obviously gathering space, but a way to use art to bring people together, which is a lot of what we've been talking about.
[00:50:35] And it looks like you have lots of different artists works just to explain to people there's incredible African masks here. There are wonderful books and paintings and T shirts and what else?
[00:50:50] Jewelry. The art to me is as important as water.
[00:50:57] It's important as a roof over your head. It's important as food in your belly. It's a part of our makeup and so it could be a backdrop, if you will. And I think if we took all the art out of the world, people would actually notice. Then it was gone. So it's around us all the time. So to me it's fundamental. So there's a program here called Building Bridges. It's been going on for 30 years. I used to be co chair of Building Bridges, but. And it's an opportunity for black folks and white folks to come together and anybody in between also. But the bookends are black and white. That's a conversation. And so it's a nine week program. And so I'm just saying 30 years of bringing people together to have dialogue around race and what it means to dismantle race and what it could look like to dismantle it in your own life and within your circle of influence in your community, it's pretty powerful, right? So something that you mentioned that I was really drawn to was this idea you said, mentioned that you sometimes have fish fries in the backyard. And one of the things that we're doing is we're talking to local restaurateurs and other people around how breaking bread together as community is part of how we have those relationship building moments.
[00:52:10] And the fact that you've connected arts and retail and food in a way to say, like, these are all areas that people come together around. How have you seen that reaction to those things? Such as, like the backyard fish fries, people have to eat, right?
[00:52:31] So we used to have this, this event in our home called Eat Engaging in Anti Racism Together.
[00:52:38] And it was an opportunity for activists in the community who were out there doing the work to come to a place where they could have some reprieve and we can be in dialogue together. And there was always food. There's always food. You have to have food, right? And so the cultural pathways, like exploring food and the dynamics of food and the origins of food and the complexity of food, this is part of the conversations that we'll have because it's what brings us closer together, right? It's not just dialogue. It's really about, you know, where the spices have come from and how they've traveled and the recipes and how similar they are in one place as they are in another. Like, these conversations are extremely important to our history and to where we come from. And I think that for folks who will, say, identify as white, we like to consider everyone as people of culture.
[00:53:35] And so if you trace back your origins, you trace back your roots, and you find your food, you find your people, you find your traditions, you find your customs, you find yourself, right? And then from that place, you can have the kind of dialogue we really need to be having in our country.
[00:53:53] When we're talking about a place like Asheville, as much as we've fallen in love with it, we need to consider all of its history, good or bad. When looking toward the future, when discussing a city coming out of a crisis and examining the response, we have to define resilience with our eyes wide open. Can people only come together after an event like Hurricane Helene? Can we incorporate the wisdom we get from people like Alexandria so that the way Forward is open to all. What can or should resilience look like? We keep asking ourselves these questions and hope we have encouraged our listeners to as well.
[00:54:28] So follow us on Social mediaeplayglove to learn more about our book project and future podcasts. And stay tuned for our last episode of this series, Stories of Resilience. Available wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:55:00] This episode of Something Worth Asheville Stories of Resilience was written by Sarah Stock Mayo and produced by Sarah Stock Mayo and Jonathan Mayo. It was executive produced by Ross Guevara.
[00:55:13] Editing and engineering were handled by Cindy Guevara and Nina Jackson of RC Digital Media. Special thanks to Alan Muscat and no Taste Like Home, Byron Ballard and the Mother Grove Goddess Temple, Marco Rosenbrook, Cameron and Courtney Mabin, Leah Wong, Ashburn and Highland Brewing Company Mary Greene Dorland Winkler, Alexandria Ravenel and the Noir Collective Jennifer Pickering and Leaf Global Arts, John Russell and the Montford Park Players, River Gagarian, Laura Williams and the Asheville Beer Choir and Takira Bersky for our cover art. And stay tuned for our last episode of this series, Stories of Resilience. Thank you for listening.
